ok so last time i posted i had reported that an in-flight magneto failure caused me to make an uncheduled landing at the nearest airport. (KTYR) in east texas. after a few weeks, my mechanic had the slick mag repaired and ready to go. we flew together in the pattern at KTYR for a little while and the plane was humming as pretty as you please. the next day i set out to make the short flight back to my home base of KGGG. (42 miles east of KTYR) it was a pretty day out (little windy 130 @ 18 G25) after returning home to the 10,000 foot monstrosity that is RWY13 in KGGG, i met my wife at the FBO (she was my ride home) its such a pretty day my wife wants me to take her for a short ride, so of course off we go!
we make the short 27 mile flight southeast to 4F2. (an untowered strip with a newly resurfaced runway) i thought i would take this oppurtunity to practice my crosswind technique (RWY17) with a touch and go. after the touch and go, we started our climb out to the south before making the left pattern and returning home to kggg. about 4 miles north of 4F2, i felt that the engine didnt sound quite right....upon looking, my rpms hads gone from 2900 to 2600....i checked EGT, oil temp, oil pressure and mixture.....all normal....so i tried carb heat....no dice. my initial thought was
"the stupid mag has fouled up again, not a big deal we can make it 20 miles home."
no sooner had i thought that than i said, well were so close to 4F2, lets go back and do a run up just to make sure im not fooling myself.....i pulled out some power for a brief moment and then put the power back in full....2500 rpm. now the engine (GO300) is sounding rough and i almost detect some "metal on metal" sounds..
i made a radio call for a straight in due to mechanical and decended with a power off landing....i taxiied to the ramp and shut down. i got out and found oil down the whole underside of the plane. i checked the dipstick and it was dry. (i had 9 quarts on preflight) everyting under the cowling was covered in oil. the mechaninc came out and determined that the #1 piston had broke apart, and fell back into the motor. he also guaranteed that i would have never made it back to KGGG had i tried.
i am absolutley sick over this and i am trying to research options....fixing the old GO seems to be out of the question so what now? do we get a new GO? can we put in a 180horse? what about prices or references?
any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Full Version: need advice, and possibly a new motor
Matt,
I am really sorry to hear of your failure, but glad you are safe. If you want to give me a call or email I will tell you what I know about the conversion options and the GO-300 options.
I am really sorry to hear of your failure, but glad you are safe. If you want to give me a call or email I will tell you what I know about the conversion options and the GO-300 options.
What a tough story.
So what did your wife say??? Has she sworn off flying???
Dont know that can be much help on the coversion options as I bought mine with an O-360 W/Hartzell constant speed prop. I like the set up, but have no comparision to a GO-300 as I have never flown one.
Craig
So what did your wife say??? Has she sworn off flying???
Dont know that can be much help on the coversion options as I bought mine with an O-360 W/Hartzell constant speed prop. I like the set up, but have no comparision to a GO-300 as I have never flown one.
Craig
actually i didnt really let on to my wife.....she asked "whats wrong" whenever i started messing with everything but i just said, "im not sure right now just let me handle this" she said ok.....and after we found out what the problem was, she said she was glad she didnt know more about what was really going on..... she still loves flying, she just says shes nervous about ever flying in the '58 again. at least until we figure this situation out.
Matt,
Great decision to turn around!!!
Sorry to hear of your troubles though.
It's tough to give advise on your situation without knowing what you are looking for as an end result. I knew when I did my conversion I would be keeping mine for a very long time so it was worth doing the conversion. However if I had intended to re-sell mine in the near future I may have made different decisions.
The least expensive way both in terms of cash output and down time is going to be finding a used GO300 engine. However be careful, you don't want to get right back in the same situation after spending thousands fixing your current problem.
I went the AVCON route with the Lycoming 180 HP and a CS prop. I watched my pennies like a hawk and I don't think it could be done any cheaper than I did it. I spent $31,500 on the conversion. I suppose I could have saved some on the panel and some other parts I really could have gotten by without but really probably not. On the flip side I could have spent a lot more using freshly overhauled engine and prop and getting one of the other STC kits.
If you go the AVCON route I would spend some time on the phone with them first and get a firm delivery time. This was my biggest complaint with them. It was a good quality kit, it just took a while to get delivered.
I'd be happy to talk to you more about this over the phone to give more details and advise but in summary if I had it to do over again I'd give a lot more serious thought and consideration to the Stoots Aviation IO360 Lycoming conversion. The cost is higher but the end result is better and I think the support after the conversion would be a plus. One other thing to consider is the gross weight increase. You don't get one with the AVCON conversion and I think you do with Stoots. I'd recommend spending some time on the phone with Mr. Stoots prior to making your final decision.
Good luck!
Jim Swanson
Great decision to turn around!!!
Sorry to hear of your troubles though.
It's tough to give advise on your situation without knowing what you are looking for as an end result. I knew when I did my conversion I would be keeping mine for a very long time so it was worth doing the conversion. However if I had intended to re-sell mine in the near future I may have made different decisions.
The least expensive way both in terms of cash output and down time is going to be finding a used GO300 engine. However be careful, you don't want to get right back in the same situation after spending thousands fixing your current problem.
I went the AVCON route with the Lycoming 180 HP and a CS prop. I watched my pennies like a hawk and I don't think it could be done any cheaper than I did it. I spent $31,500 on the conversion. I suppose I could have saved some on the panel and some other parts I really could have gotten by without but really probably not. On the flip side I could have spent a lot more using freshly overhauled engine and prop and getting one of the other STC kits.
If you go the AVCON route I would spend some time on the phone with them first and get a firm delivery time. This was my biggest complaint with them. It was a good quality kit, it just took a while to get delivered.
I'd be happy to talk to you more about this over the phone to give more details and advise but in summary if I had it to do over again I'd give a lot more serious thought and consideration to the Stoots Aviation IO360 Lycoming conversion. The cost is higher but the end result is better and I think the support after the conversion would be a plus. One other thing to consider is the gross weight increase. You don't get one with the AVCON conversion and I think you do with Stoots. I'd recommend spending some time on the phone with Mr. Stoots prior to making your final decision.
Good luck!
Jim Swanson
Oh, almost forgot to mention.
I was able to sell my old firewall forward in parts for a total of about $4,000. Not sure what exactly you have left but you should be able to sell off some of the old stuff to recoupe some of your funds if you decide to go the conversion route. So about $27,500 out of pocket for the conversion.
Just curious, what was your times on the engine?
TT?
SMOH?
STOH?
and STOH on the #1 cylinder?
Just curious!
Jim
I was able to sell my old firewall forward in parts for a total of about $4,000. Not sure what exactly you have left but you should be able to sell off some of the old stuff to recoupe some of your funds if you decide to go the conversion route. So about $27,500 out of pocket for the conversion.
Just curious, what was your times on the engine?
TT?
SMOH?
STOH?
and STOH on the #1 cylinder?
Just curious!
Jim
Matt,
Been there, done that, but didn't even get a t-shirt! I lost power on take-off at pattern altitude and pulled carb heat just like you did. Things got worse, so I set it right down and it was blowing oil out the breather by the time I taxied to my tie-down. The right front piston cracked from the skirt up and burned a hole that dumped metal in the crankcase. I figure it was minutes away from coming apart. When I dis-assembled the engine there were two more pistons that had started cracking at holes in the bottom oil groove.
The damage to the bearings was done though, and a perfectly good standard crank with just over 400 hours was scoured, as were the gear-box bushings and shafts. I pursued the idea of rebuilding the GO-300, but eventually realized I would have around $24K into doing it right for a 1200 hour TBO.
There are almost too many options for this aircraft and none pencil out unless you don't have much into it to begin with, get a great deal on another power-plant, can do your own work, have lots of time/patience to wait for everything to come together, and intend to fly it for the next twenty years. If you have the cash and can write it off as a business expense, that would help too!
My biggest regret is that I did not spend the money to put a new set of titan nickle cylinders all the way around when I first bought the aircraft. It is still parked until I get enough money to do it right or someone else comes along that wants to take on the project themselves.
Take your time and study the options Kris shows you. If you rush into this and get over your head, you may regret it. I figure it was more than just luck that my engine did not decide to fall apart over the waters of Cook Inlet or in the middle of Rainy Pass (likelihood of survival would have been slim and none respectively), so my next engine will have been built by someone other than a backyard bubba with a tool-box and dream!
Been there, done that, but didn't even get a t-shirt! I lost power on take-off at pattern altitude and pulled carb heat just like you did. Things got worse, so I set it right down and it was blowing oil out the breather by the time I taxied to my tie-down. The right front piston cracked from the skirt up and burned a hole that dumped metal in the crankcase. I figure it was minutes away from coming apart. When I dis-assembled the engine there were two more pistons that had started cracking at holes in the bottom oil groove.
The damage to the bearings was done though, and a perfectly good standard crank with just over 400 hours was scoured, as were the gear-box bushings and shafts. I pursued the idea of rebuilding the GO-300, but eventually realized I would have around $24K into doing it right for a 1200 hour TBO.
There are almost too many options for this aircraft and none pencil out unless you don't have much into it to begin with, get a great deal on another power-plant, can do your own work, have lots of time/patience to wait for everything to come together, and intend to fly it for the next twenty years. If you have the cash and can write it off as a business expense, that would help too!
My biggest regret is that I did not spend the money to put a new set of titan nickle cylinders all the way around when I first bought the aircraft. It is still parked until I get enough money to do it right or someone else comes along that wants to take on the project themselves.
Take your time and study the options Kris shows you. If you rush into this and get over your head, you may regret it. I figure it was more than just luck that my engine did not decide to fall apart over the waters of Cook Inlet or in the middle of Rainy Pass (likelihood of survival would have been slim and none respectively), so my next engine will have been built by someone other than a backyard bubba with a tool-box and dream!
QUOTE (Matthew Langley @ Feb 4 2008, 02:43 PM) 
ok so last time i posted i had reported that an in-flight magneto failure caused me to make an uncheduled landing at the nearest airport. (KTYR) in east texas. after a few weeks, my mechanic had the slick mag repaired and ready to go. we flew together in the pattern at KTYR for a little while and the plane was humming as pretty as you please. the next day i set out to make the short flight back to my home base of KGGG. (42 miles east of KTYR) it was a pretty day out (little windy 130 @ 18 G25) after returning home to the 10,000 foot monstrosity that is RWY13 in KGGG, i met my wife at the FBO (she was my ride home) its such a pretty day my wife wants me to take her for a short ride, so of course off we go!
we make the short 27 mile flight southeast to 4F2. (an untowered strip with a newly resurfaced runway) i thought i would take this oppurtunity to practice my crosswind technique (RWY17) with a touch and go. after the touch and go, we started our climb out to the south before making the left pattern and returning home to kggg. about 4 miles north of 4F2, i felt that the engine didnt sound quite right....upon looking, my rpms hads gone from 2900 to 2600....i checked EGT, oil temp, oil pressure and mixture.....all normal....so i tried carb heat....no dice. my initial thought was
"the stupid mag has fouled up again, not a big deal we can make it 20 miles home."
no sooner had i thought that than i said, well were so close to 4F2, lets go back and do a run up just to make sure im not fooling myself.....i pulled out some power for a brief moment and then put the power back in full....2500 rpm. now the engine (GO300) is sounding rough and i almost detect some "metal on metal" sounds..
i made a radio call for a straight in due to mechanical and decended with a power off landing....i taxiied to the ramp and shut down. i got out and found oil down the whole underside of the plane. i checked the dipstick and it was dry. (i had 9 quarts on preflight) everyting under the cowling was covered in oil. the mechaninc came out and determined that the #1 piston had broke apart, and fell back into the motor. he also guaranteed that i would have never made it back to KGGG had i tried.
i am absolutley sick over this and i am trying to research options....fixing the old GO seems to be out of the question so what now? do we get a new GO? can we put in a 180horse? what about prices or references?
any help would be greatly appreciated!!
we make the short 27 mile flight southeast to 4F2. (an untowered strip with a newly resurfaced runway) i thought i would take this oppurtunity to practice my crosswind technique (RWY17) with a touch and go. after the touch and go, we started our climb out to the south before making the left pattern and returning home to kggg. about 4 miles north of 4F2, i felt that the engine didnt sound quite right....upon looking, my rpms hads gone from 2900 to 2600....i checked EGT, oil temp, oil pressure and mixture.....all normal....so i tried carb heat....no dice. my initial thought was
"the stupid mag has fouled up again, not a big deal we can make it 20 miles home."
no sooner had i thought that than i said, well were so close to 4F2, lets go back and do a run up just to make sure im not fooling myself.....i pulled out some power for a brief moment and then put the power back in full....2500 rpm. now the engine (GO300) is sounding rough and i almost detect some "metal on metal" sounds..
i made a radio call for a straight in due to mechanical and decended with a power off landing....i taxiied to the ramp and shut down. i got out and found oil down the whole underside of the plane. i checked the dipstick and it was dry. (i had 9 quarts on preflight) everyting under the cowling was covered in oil. the mechaninc came out and determined that the #1 piston had broke apart, and fell back into the motor. he also guaranteed that i would have never made it back to KGGG had i tried.
i am absolutley sick over this and i am trying to research options....fixing the old GO seems to be out of the question so what now? do we get a new GO? can we put in a 180horse? what about prices or references?
any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Matt,
Sorry about the problem with your engine. How many hours were on the cylinders and pistons? Was there evidence of detonation?
Matthew,
I didn't respond before, because I was a little way from being finished with my conversion. I am at KJDD (Wood County, Texas), just a short hop from you. I will be taking 7488M on her maiden flight with a new Lycoming O360, sometime next week. If you want to come take a look at the project, and get some information, Ill be glad to tell you everything I know. I bought the Del-air conversion, but I think the Avcon is just as good, and it's cheaper. Jim Swanson did that one.
Bob Young
I didn't respond before, because I was a little way from being finished with my conversion. I am at KJDD (Wood County, Texas), just a short hop from you. I will be taking 7488M on her maiden flight with a new Lycoming O360, sometime next week. If you want to come take a look at the project, and get some information, Ill be glad to tell you everything I know. I bought the Del-air conversion, but I think the Avcon is just as good, and it's cheaper. Jim Swanson did that one.
Bob Young
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